Patriot system build up - SQ/Show

[broadz]

In the process of building my Patriot up as a show car...

Number one priority was audio:

Installed:
1/0 gauge cable/stinger with stinger fuses/etc
Clarion HXD2 Headunit
Digital Designs c6x9 components
Vifa Tweeters
Rockford Fosgate T1500bd mono (1800w RMS x2)
Rockford Fosgate T400.4 4 channel x2 (200w RMS x4)
Subs: undecided at the moment

under each front seat there is a monoblock with a 4 channel stack above it. The amp rack is in being built which consists of a steel frame (hidden) and perspex mounts for each of the 4 amps.

The subbox currently being used is temporary until can have some spare time to start on the fiberglassed box which will be "different" and only photos will do it justice!


dynamat installed



old vs new



installed, fits like a glove


temporary sub box construction



HXD2 headunit installed




an example of my installers handy work (my WRX i recently sold)

[Three Oh Diesel]

That's impressive!

Since you're an audio guy I'm curious what you think about the Alpine PDX series amplifiers...

[broadz]

thanks mate, have to get more pics uploaded. Progress may be a little slow in the next 2-3 weeks while I'm working away.

PDX amps are brilliant however require a decent power supply (adequate sized cabling).
I feel they are if anything slightly underated. Sure they lack a bit of warmth of full sized high end amps, but they have so much to offer in mounting options and power output for the size.
Another benefit with the PDX amp is that they are regulated. This means you no longer need to decide on what voice coil arrangement you need to maximise your sub-amp's potential. The PDX1000 outputs 1000w RMS at 4, 2 or 1 ohm. In comparison, my T1500BD outputs 1800w RMS @ 1 ohm, 1400w RMS @ 2 ohm and 1000w RMS at 4 ohm.

[UnCrowned King]

Nice truck! I like those wheels. Nice choice in audio, not a fan of the Clarion deck, but some one has to buy their stuff. I own those same RF amps, you have good taste. lol. I highly recommended the ID Max subs. They are phenomenal. Great SQ if you want to go sealed while maintaining a decent power handling. I'm a little confused about your choice to use 6x9s in a SQ application, I'm sure you know that a round speaker makes a more liner wave form then a oval.

[I.C.E. Man]

Get some Digital Designs - http://www.ddaudio.com/dd/default.asp

[UnCrowned King]

Yeah, DD makes a loud sub, but the Patriot is going for SQ. DD doesn't have a woofer to match the SQ/Power handling of the ID Max. I owned a few DD9500 and DDZs and they don't compare to the ID Max in SQ. I don't really thing they were louder the the MAx with out sounding like bleh. I think the dampening is too low. They are great for SPL competition. I knew this guy that would show up at the last minuet, looking like he just drove buy and wanted to see what all the fuss was about. He would pull into the lane in a CRX and get out, open the hatch, pull back his cargo cover and he had one DD9500 12 in a 1.5 cbft box with a Mats 3200. he would shut the hatch and plug his tape adapter into his stupid disc man, and do like a 154 on the Termlab! Since he was Street class he broke a lot of competitors hearts at the last minuet. He did it all the time, Hilarious.

[I.C.E. Man]

Originally Posted by UnCrowned King

I knew this guy that would show up at the last minuet, looking like he just drove buy and wanted to see what all the fuss was about. He would pull into the lane in a CRX and get out, open the hatch, pull back his cargo cover and he had one DD9500 12 in a 1.5 cbft box with a Mats 3200. he would shut the hatch and plug his tape adapter into his stupid disc man, and do like a 154 on the Termlab! Since he was Street class he broke a lot of competitors hearts at the last minuet. He did it all the time, Hilarious.

LOL, thats a great story. I have 3 2510's on 800 watts in my jeep and that's not even close to what they can handle.

[broadz]

Originally Posted by UnCrowned King

Nice truck! I like those wheels. Nice choice in audio, not a fan of the Clarion deck, but some one has to buy their stuff. I own those same RF amps, you have good taste. lol. I highly recommended the ID Max subs. They are phenomenal. Great SQ if you want to go sealed while maintaining a decent power handling. I'm a little confused about your choice to use 6x9s in a SQ application, I'm sure you know that a round speaker makes a more liner wave form then a oval.

Thanks mate!

Clarion Deck is their flagship and is better then what any other of the mainstream brand have to offer in a single DIN headunit.
$2099rrp worth. The only headunits to compare are Denon, Nakamachi, McIntosh. From the copper chassis to the dual power inputs (dc-dc convertor) to elimiate noise entering via the display/clock to the 8 channel RCA preouts (front low, front mid, front high, stereo subwoofer) 2 pairs of inputs, ipod control, optical digital input/output, 96khz sampling rate, 1 and 0.5 db incremental volume control. In Australia there isnt anything else on the market that offers this level of tuning without expensive add on processors/control modules.

So sound waves are round when using round speakers? Do Kicker subs output "square" soundwaves? Nope.

For midbass application the difference would be VERY marginal (oval vs round) if noticable at all. For the ease of installation (factory 6x9s front and rear), cone area - epic midbass output due to cone size, using 6x9s in SQ trim perfectly suits my needs.
The 6x9s, however do lack upper midrange and the current tweeters are crossed over fairly high meaning a noticable "gap" which needs to be filled.
In the upcoming weeks i'll look into adding a pair of 3 inch mids and better tweeters to help fill the complete audio spectrum. Looking into Hybrid Audio Technologies Legatia mids and PRO tweeters.

I would have used DD subs however they dont sound anywhere near as nice as the idmax and the idmax has been a true winner time and time again. Pretty simple choice really.

[UnCrowned King]

ID Max FTW!

Originally Posted by broadz

So sound waves are round when using round speakers? Do Kicker subs output "square" soundwaves? Nope.

I don't know where shape come from, although there is a square wave, it is not the shape of a wave form I was referring to, rather the linearity. You're right though, its mostly white paper stuff and you probably wouldn't hear the difference, I just know how picky SQ judges are. I'm also very sure the Clarion is a good performer, I'm just not a fan of their UI. I'd take a Pioneer P9 combo or P9R in Australia, over any SQ deck including Denon, Nakamachi, McIntosh. But if everyone had the same opinion, we'd all rock the same stuff. I just got out of a SQ car I was building with PGs Titanium line. 3 way comps, bi-amped, all PG TI except the deck, P9 of course, I couldn't find the Denon Z1 PG badged in there TI day, only 3 made. The Ti Comps made by Morel and the Ti 12s, I even had a Cyclone in there for a while.

[broadz]

haha, its a discussion ive had with many different purists. I think not enough time and effort has been spent in the past to try and achieve good results from 6x9s. Not to mention in the past there have been very few decent 6x9s available. If cone area is king for low end extension, I have more cone area then an 8 inch (probably about equivalent to an 8.5-9). Distortion in low frequencies are far less noticeable then higher freqs so providing i band-pass them over fairly low/narrow (somewhere in the region of 80-800hz) I shouldn't run into any of the 6x9 mythical SQ dramas.
I "could" have gone the P9 combo, although they are stupidly expensive and not readily available in AUS. The Alpine H701 combo would have been another choice but it is no longer available in aus and ive never taken a liking to Alpine headunits.
Ive competed and been quite successful in my WRX, had same headunit too!

Originally Posted by UnCrowned King

ID Max FTW!



I don't know where shape come from, although there is a square wave, it is not the shape of a wave form I was referring to, rather the linearity. You're right though, its mostly white paper stuff and you probably wouldn't hear the difference, I just know how picky SQ judges are. I'm also very sure the Clarion is a good performer, I'm just not a fan of their UI. I'd take a Pioneer P9 combo or P9R in Australia, over any SQ deck including Denon, Nakamachi, McIntosh. But if everyone had the same opinion, we'd all rock the same stuff. I just got out of a SQ car I was building with PGs Titanium line. 3 way comps, bi-amped, all PG TI except the deck, P9 of course, I couldn't find the Denon Z1 PG badged in there TI day, only 3 made. The Ti Comps made by Morel and the Ti 12s, I even had a Cyclone in there for a while.

[broadz]

Well I have changed slightly..

The system now consists of:

Clarion HXD2
2x Rockford T1500bd monos
2x Rockford T400.4 4 channels (running 800w RMS front speakers)
Morel Supremo 6 midbass'
Morel Supremo Picollo tweeters
2x Boston Acoustics G512 subs

Midbass's are in 12 litre sealed fiberglassed enclosures within the door cavity. ie a 12 litre sealed (and removable) sub box is inside each door!
tweeters are mounted slightly off axis toward the rear view mirror and no resin was harmed in the tweeter pods - they are plastic welded into the factory panel and colour/texture matched too.

Sound output from the 6s is incredible. the bass output is great and they now play well into the subbass region. (this means i technically dont need subs at all any more)

A couple of carefully placed LED lights highlight tweeters and cup holders

pics: enjoy

[Street LX]

Looks awesome! LED's instantly turn an interior into bad ass.

[UnCrowned King]

Nice equipment! Great looking install. Where did you put the amps? Did you upgrade the alternator? What wire gauge did you run? Did you add batteries?

[broadz]

[broadz]

amps are under the seats (all four under front seats)
cabling is 1/0 gauge and still using the stock battery for now. The stock battery is already a monster 800 cca anyway, stock alternator is also ample

[UnCrowned King]

Nice, I have the same amps in my work car installed the same way! Good thing you don't have enough voltage for those amps too put out full power! Those poor Bostons would simply melt at 2000 watts, I don't know what they'd do with 3,600 watts! Jeez, I've heard of over-powering a sub but thats crazy! Why didn't you go with 2 T501bds or one T1001bd? that would have been plenty of power for those 12's.

[broadz]

I deliberately wanted overkill, its all about the amp gains, however i cant really have the gains set low enough to not have too much bass. I have the gains too low and the subs lack power, up too much and the subbass dominates.
Originally was planning on running two RE XXX 12s and would have needed all that power. I had one 1500bd before purchasing the car and have just bought all matching amps so i can have a completely symettrical system. ie left speaker amp runs the lhs speakers, right speaker amp runs rhs speakers, left sub amp runs left sub and right sub amp runs right sub.

yes 3600watts RMS is overkill for 600w RMS subs but they seem to love plenty of power as long as im not silly with it

[UnCrowned King]

Are you running the Morels 3-way or through a passive crossover? What did you use for rear fill?

[broadz]

i'm running them as 2 way active, (gives me individual control over each of the speakers - EQ time align etc) the extra midrange has not been used yet and will be a last resort if i cannot get the system to stage correctly. to be honest, i feel i could quite easily get away with using only 4 speaker drivers and no subs at all (2 midbass and 2 tweeters) as i have plenty of subbass output with my 6s.
I dont use rear fill at all, i believe money spent on rear fill will be better spent elsewhere. As this car is a true SQ competition car I only have what I need to achieve the best possible sound quality, nothing else. With the money spent, yes i could have went with full multimedia/car computer etc but it doesnt make the car sound better and I've been there/done that with my last SQ car (my Impreza WRX)

[UnCrowned King]

Rear fill is actually pretty crucial to staging and will lose you points in a US Iasca and Meca Competition. I think I'm gonna use some Integra Ovation 6 1/2 for rear fill in mine. And you defiantly want to use those mid-ranges to take the strain of the 450-7000 hz range off the woofer and tweeter if you can. It will allow them to play much more efficiently and ultimately smooth out the entire system. You should be able to run the whole system active with what you have since your HU has a 4way crossover in it. My last SQ car had 10 speakers in the front stage alone and Morel 9's for rear fill 3 12's, 8 amps all active with no passive xo's. What a pain that was.